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Doing Hard Things with David Deaton

Nov 16, 2023
April Price Coaching
Doing Hard Things with David Deaton

My brother recently ran his third 100-mile ultramarathon and I wanted to know all about it!

WHY did he run it? HOW did he run it? And WHAT does he do to keep going when things get hard? We talk about all of it in this latest episode of the podcast.

This is an episode packed with tons of insights and a-ha moments to help all of us who want to do hard things but don’t know how to keep going when our brain is telling us to stop.

We talk about why it’s pursuing your goals matters, tools for quieting mental chatter, the sacredness of overcoming difficult moments, and how to do any impossible thing in your life. I guarantee this discussion will inspire and help you no matter what you’re trying to accomplish!



Welcome to the 100% Awesome Podcast with April Price. You might not know it, but every result in your life is 100% because of the thoughts you think. And that, my friends, is 100% awesome.

Hello podcast universe, welcome to episode 237 of the 100% Awesome Podcast. I'm April Price and boy do I have a treat for you today. In the last couple of podcast episodes, I have mentioned my brother David and how he recently ran his third 100 mile ultramarathon. And so, today I invited him onto the podcast to talk about his experience with that race, and also just to share the things that he's learned about how to do hard things. And there are so many beautiful gems in here. This is such a good episode with so many good insights, and I think so much help for all of us who want to do hard things in our life. And then our brain somehow always gets in the way. And on the day that David was running the 100 mile race, we have this family group chat and my kids were teasing in the chat and they're just like, hey, David's running 100 miles today. What are you doing? Like, what are you doing with your life? Right? And we all kind of laughed and, and like said, the things we're doing, I was like, I ran a 5K in honor of his 100 miles, right? Like I did the warmup.

And anyway, I just want to say, for all of you that are like, why do I need to listen to an episode about 100 mile race like that is just never going to happen, and it's not even something that I want to have happen in my life. And I just want to say that, like, this is not about the 100 miles. Like, I know most of you are not tuning into this podcast today to to figure out how you're going to run 100 miles this next weekend, right? And maybe your brain is going to tell you that this just doesn't apply to you. But for each of us that are having a human experience, doing hard things, wanting to do, challenging almost, you know, seemingly right now impossible things in our life.

There are so many good thoughts in this episode, and I came away with so much inspiration and some really incredible insights. We talk about some really tender moments in this race, and I think that it will bless you no matter what it is that you are trying to do in your life. That might feel impossible, or at least very hard or very uncomfortable. All right, so I love this discussion and I feel really lucky to have had it. And I hope that you love it too. And it will inspire you to do something hard. Just as like a footnote, we're going to be talking about his experience at mile 94, and because I already talked about it on the podcast, we don't go into a lot of detail. If you want that full story. It is a couple episodes back in the episode about casting spells, so here we go.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Yeah. I'm excited.

I feel like I've talked about you and your 100 mile race. Like for like all of the last few episodes, I'm like, we just need to talk to you directly and hear all about it, so.

Well, yeah, was telling Jill that was like, April made us sound so much cooler than we really were.

That's not true.

I feel like it was like, if your life story were ever made into like, a movie and like, man, I look a lot cooler with like, music playing in the background. And like, it was just like that moment at mile 94, like it was a sweet moment, but was just like April, like, made it seem more beautiful than it. Maybe not more beautiful, but just like like it was small, but it was impactful. But anyway. But like the way you told the story, it was like we enjoyed it. We were like, yeah, we're gonna we're going to remember it the way April told it.

Love it. Okay. The first question I think that I want to ask that I think probably everybody is asking is why? Right, why run 100 miles ever in the first place? Right and really, why do you do hard things.

Yeah. So that's like the number one question for sure. Every ultra marathoner gets asked is like why? And so it's something that you have to think about because everyone's always asking you it. And like honestly, like I don't really have like the greatest answer for it other than I read a book in 2013 called Born to Run, and that was the first time. Well, that's not my first exposure to ultramarathons, right? So our sister Rachael ran an ultra marathon, I think in 2008 might have been 2007. And so, that was my first time I ever even heard of it. I've been a runner, you know, since I was like doing turkey trots, like in elementary school. So, running has always been like something I've enjoyed and been good at. So, that part it comes kind of come natural. But when I read that book called Born to Run in 2013 was like, okay, I'm going to do it someday. I'm going to run Western States. And at the time I was training for Boston to run Boston. And so once I get my marathon goal, then the next step will be to then extend the distance and to do certain states. And for anyone that doesn't know, Western states is like the oldest 100 mile trail race in the United States. And it's kind of like the Super Bowl of ultra running. But like best reason I can think of for like why I do it is. It's just something in my life that kind of gives me confidence for everything else, which is like, I know I can do this thing good. And so by doing it, I mean have a lot of free time while I'm running and training. And I think about work stresses, life stresses and lots of other, you know, just things that pop up in your day. And for me, it helps me to kind of comb through like areas where I want to do better or other goals in life, while am achieving a goal that's in some sense second nature.

But when you're talking about 100 miles, like like we're just sitting here talking, right? But but I'm like, but David, it is hard, right? Like it is.

Yes of course.

Painful, and how do you. I guess. How do you make yourself do those hard things? Because it's all optional. Like, I get that you enjoy it and I get that it's a relief. But like, you could go out and run five miles and probably get the same kind of like or maybe not, but kind of get the same like benefits of like sorting your life out and like working through stresses and stuff.

Yeah for sure.

So okay, so see we were saying like take it to take it to the extreme. Like aside from just like just running for a stress relief, like why do you choose like, this form.

This kind of challenge.

Yeah. That, you know, is going to be painful going in. You know, it's going to test like every endurance muscle you have. Like why pick that?

So, I think I am searching for. A feeling, and the feeling is to triumph. Like that's that's what I want to express. I want to experience the emotion of triumph.

And gosh, that's so good.

And like, there's different times in your life where, like, certainly you'll experience triumph. And like you said this in your podcast before, and it really resonated with me. Just like actually finishing like they talk about like the finish line feels like nothing feels as good as finishing a marathon. And so I ran my first marathon, like clear back in 2013. And when I finished, I was so let down by the feeling of finishing because I was just.

Because you were expecting like, this was just like.

I was expecting like, oh my goodness. Like and then and so but I was still hooked on marathoning. I still ran multiple marathons after that. And I started realizing I still feel triumph, but I've noticed about my training is I feel it usually about 2 or 3 weeks before the event when I know, like I'm ready for it.

Oh, wow. That's cool.

And then the then the actual event is just like. So, I remember this moment in in calculus where I was really struggling. I can't even remember what the topic was, but there was a challenging topic that was trying to learn and like it just wasn't connecting. And then I remember, like doing my studies and doing some practice problems and it finally clicking. And like in the moment of that click, I felt the triumph. And then when the test came, that was just like. That was just like the proof, the outward manifestation of the concept that I've learned. And that's kind of the same way feel with with running a lot of times is like. People often expect, like the finish line is when you're going to feel that like swell of emotion. And I do feel like gratitude and certainly like proud of myself and, and those things. But the real feeling that I'm searching for is like that feeling like of triumph, like 2 or 3 weeks before. Usually I'll have, like, this one workout and it'll just be like, oh yeah, like I'm ready. There's no doubt. Like I'm going to finish this race. I'm ready. I'm as prepared as can be. So that's I would say, like, why do I do like all this training and all these events? And it's really that feeling of triumph that is an emotion that I'm trying to experience.

Yeah, I mean, I haven't had very many of those in my life, but the ones that I have, like they're so vivid in my mind that feeling and that it really is an addictive one to chase, for sure. I love that. Okay, so when it's hard in the middle or hard in training even, I'm curious what tools or techniques or thoughts or whatever that you use to make yourself do hard things. Uncomfortable things.

Yeah, I mean, there's lots of different techniques, so I have mantras that I use for sure, like those five mantras that I shared on my Instagram feed beforehand. Yeah, we're mantras that basically wanted to really like use as tools during the 100 mile.

So yeah, well, you share those.

Yeah. To backtrack, so I've attempted three 100 mile races. I have finished two and I stopped at mile 70 during one of the races. The first time I ran the 100 mile race, I posted on Instagram, like the five days before, like five different mantras. And it wasn't it wasn't anything planned. It was just like I was excited about the race and it was just like wanting to share with everyone. Like my excitement anyway. But now I'm kind of superstitious about it because that one I finished and then the next one I ran. I felt like confident, like, okay, I've done 100 miles before, like, yeah. And I was like physically and from my training perspective, like I was in the best shape of all the three times I've run a marathon. The one time I didn't complete it, I was actually in better physical shape. And like, there was some level of like, arrogance, I think, on my part of just like. Yeah, like I've done it before. I can do it again. And guess I underestimated, like, it's still hard.


And so, then this next, this last time, a month ago was just like, okay, like something superstitious about it was like, I'm going to do the matches again and try and get in like the right mindset because I really felt like that was the only difference. It was like my mindset wasn't where it needed to be, even though physically I was probably a little bit more fit, you know, a little bit more prepared. So yeah, my mantras were some of them are like running mantras that just like a runner would know, and some of them were just like outside of running. So one one was like a marble in a groove, which is something I heard Camille Heron say. She's a tons of world records for ultra marathoning, and she said that in one of her posts, when she ran that same course that I ran, she said she wanted to be like a marble in a groove. And just like the visual of just like a marble friction.

Just friction.

Just kind of easy. Like the marble is not in a hurry. It's just like, yeah.

And it's not worried. It's not going to get to the end. It's just like it's just.

Bouncing along, just like.

Going down the course and thought that was like, that's such like a beautiful way to like, you know, when it starts getting tough, just, you know, give yourself the ability to just like don't run the course. Let the course kind of like push you along, like when it's uphill. Yeah, the marble is going to slow down a little bit when it's downhill and it, you know, feels good. Like just kind of glide your way down the rocks and just kind of, you know.

Love that thought. I always use my legs know what to do, but that's even better because then you still have to work. Right. But a marble, you feel like it's not even working.

It's just like, yeah, it's just going. Going down the path.Some people call like they'll do Bruce Lee's mantra is be water. Just like water, just kind of like it runs. No resistance, no friction. You're just, yeah, but the kind of unique thing about Bruce Lee's Be Water is like water is also like, you can't ever hit water. You can't hurt water. Like if you try and punch water, it just like moves. It just moves, spreads out. It just spreads out and just comes back together. And like, you can't it's like, can't hurt it.

Yeah that's cool.

Anyway, so that was one like marble and a groove. Slow is easy, easy as fast. That's more of a running kind of mantra. And it's just kind of the concept of when you're running 100 miles, you're going to be running slow compared to like your marathon time or your five day time or whatever. But for ultra marathon, it's like a completely different experience. It's like, I'm not trying to run a time, I'm trying to just complete the distance. And so it's just kind of that reminder of like, especially in the early miles, I'll tell myself what was easy, easy as fast just to slow myself down. Anyway so, I'm doing my mantras one of them was run grateful.

Yeah, what does run grateful mean? What are you thinking about and what do you like using there?

So, that one is completely get out of a negative headspace mantra. Obviously, we've discussed like this is voluntary, that I've chosen to do this hobby, this activity, and in the moment of the actual race, like when the pain is like biggest and like the worst, it can just be so easy to just like get really negative, to go on, like, you know, your brain's arguing with you. And if you can just like, step back and be like, I am so grateful that I have a body that can do this, I am so grateful that I financially can afford this hobby. I'm so grateful that I have, you know, spousal support that allows me to do this. Just like mean. Anything that you can think of that like allows me to pursue this hobby. And it's really hard to be negative when you're feeling gratitude. It's hard to feel like those counter emotions and and gratitude is of like a positive emotion that feel like is easy to kind of fall into as opposed to like, happy. Because like when you're miserable and you're trying like, force yourself to be happy, like, yeah, yeah. Like that's just like impossible. Like, at least haven't been able to do that in my life. But like, right. Gratitude can still feel.

Something to be grateful while you're hurting.

Yeah. Kind of. And found it to be useful. Like just in training to get me out of like some negative headspace when like, don't want to do a workout or I don't want to get up in the morning or, yeah, want to run like late at night or whatever the training may be. If I can just think like just how grateful I am to be in a circumstance where I can pursue this hobby, it's been helpful.

So yeah, love that one. And it's one that's helped me like in my I mean, I've only done two official endurance events and they aren't anything like yours. But going back to like just being grateful for my body, grateful to be able to use it, grateful to be able to choose it, and even like grateful for the earth that I'm running or I wasn't running, but you were running on like the trees. You know all of that. It's for sure when you.

When I'm running, it's very easy for me to, like, find gratitude for the land I'm on. Yeah, I always find running wherever I run kind of feels like sacred ground.


That, like, especially if repeat running, like, a lot on it. Like a course that run over and over again.


It's like somehow the act of consistency and running there is like sanctifying or something, I don't know.

Oh my gosh, David that's beautiful I love that. It's so beautiful. Did you have any doubt like, I know you felt that triumphant feeling and you feel like I'm ready, but because, you know, you had done it once, you felt that confidence and then, you know, the second one didn't go the way you wanted it. Did you have doubts along the way? Did that make the mental chatter any louder at any point?

I think when it comes to like the mental chatter in like an ultramarathon, I don't know, sometimes it's just like you hear it, but it's just like you just decide it doesn't matter. Mhm. You just like. You know, your body's telling you like, slow down or it's wet or it's, you know, whatever the thing is. And then you just like you have you decided at the start of the race that like, it wasn't going to matter, like no matter what it said, it just like you weren't going to listen to it and you do still end up listening to it, but it's more just like you're listening to it without believing it.

You're just some skepticism.

Yeah. It's like okay, yeah, yeah. Got I don't know. That's maybe the best way to kind of describe it. Whereas like that is so helpful. Like just the idea that like, I hear you but I don't, I don't heed you, I don't know, but yeah, but I love the phrase. I love what you said it. I've decided it doesn't matter. It's like how much stock I put in the chatter as opposed to like.

Yeah, so there's an ultramarathon that he might have been the greatest ultramarathon are ever. And he says, like, not all pain is important. And and basically what he's saying is like when you're running these longer events, like, yeah, your hamstrings are going to hurt and your calves are going to hurt. And like, yeah, you're going to have like all these brain chemical signals feeling like you're in pain. And he's just like has decided like it's not it's not important. Yeah. My second javelina where I stopped at mile 70, that was so I was experiencing nausea and looking back on it like I didn't have a plan for vomiting.

Like like I had mentally kind of in my mind, been like, yeah, like when this happens. Yeah. Pain, like not all pain is important. But I hadn't told myself before that race vomiting is unimportant. And maybe the when you say like I didn't have a plan for the vomiting or whatever, that like not all pain is important. Like maybe the vomiting felt scarier, you know, to your brain it was like, this is new. Yeah, like this maybe feels serious or whatever, right.

Like in training, you're training like your body to, like, have sore legs and. And lungs that are on fire. But like in my training I had never vomited. And so like it definitely felt novel.

You should train with me

00:20:49:24 - 00:20:51:08
There's a big part of my training.

So, you can just you can just tell your negative brain or, you know, just like you're not important. You're not important.

Yeah, I really like that. I think that's really, really helpful. All right. So I'm going to talk about the highest moments of the race. And maybe it happened to the race. Maybe it happened in training. But what you learned in those high moments.

Yeah, so will usually feel kind of like that. Like triumphant feeling usually before the race when I feel like I'm really ready. And so that actually inspired, like my Instagram post, like a couple of weeks before. And that was also kind of actually that kind of weaving in of like gratitude for the Hudson River walkway that I've been running up and down for months. Yeah. It's just like this weave of like gratitude and like self-assuredness kind of into that post there. So I would definitely say that that's a high moment in the actual race. The first 30 miles, I felt fantastic, which guess is to be expected like early on in the race you're just feeling is.

It 30 miles expecting to feel fantastic?

Well, guess like the first third of any race. Yeah, it's probably feeling really positive and like you're the distance. But just like the first third you're like, yeah, like feel good. I hit a low point at mile like 36, which was earlier than expected to kind of feel a dip, but then came back like a mile 40 maybe getting my miles off, but then like 40 to 70 I was feeling good again until it started raining. Then once it started raining, I got in a negative headspace and it was like 24 miles of just like slog and misery. And I honestly like it was hard for me to be grateful for the rain. Yeah. And yeah. And the wet. So I just kind of like ran through it, like in a low point. Like, what does it sound like in your head when, like when you say, I got in a negative headspace, what is your brain saying to you? What is the voice in your head saying?

It's usually saying, slow down. So, the first marathon I ever ran was trying to qualify for the Boston Marathon, which meant a headwind seven minute miles. And I remember like mile 16, I was still like right on pace. And the message my brain was sending me was just run a ten minute mile. It wasn't telling me to stop, but it was just like and the thought was like, oh, a ten minute mile would feel so good. Like that was the sweet, like, like tempting slice of cake or something to, like, break your diet or, you know, just a ten minute mile. And there's just like, that does sound kind of good anyway. And I did end up slowing down. I never did run that that sweet ten minute mile. But that's what usually when my brain is negotiating. Yeah, very rarely is it negotiating to quit all out. It's usually yeah like compromising and it'll do that like in workouts as well. Like I'll have planned like okay I need to run ten miles today, you know, for this next race. Yes, I'll get out, start running or whatever. And like, it'll be like I'll hit four miles out. So, it's like, oh, just turn around now. That's still eight miles. So that's usually the compromise. That or the battle I'm having with my brain is like. Just a little bit. A little bit short. Ease up. Just go a little bit slower. Like that's. That's what it's doing to a mile 70 when it's like wet and miserable. It was, it was just like just walk.

It's hard to run right now because you don't have good footing. It's dark. Yeah. Just walk, just walk. But then I guess the battle then I have is just like, then I'm just sitting in the rain longer, like, and I'm not moving. I'm going to be cold longer. I'm just getting colder longer. So that's the way like push back is just like. If I run it shortens the duration of the misery. That's the struggle. Like. It's one of the things that I admire about you so much, and I'm just trying to figure out how to have more of that in my own life. The fact that, like, you are miserable, you are in pain, and stopping just somehow is like not an option. You just keep. You hear it, but you keep going.

Yeah. So, I guess maybe the learning opportunity comes from the ultramarathon that I did quit. It was like the time I did listen to stop altogether and what I took away from it. Like, obviously there was like some training aspects and like race day strategy that I think if I would have gone slower at the beginning, like it would have been a different result. And, you know, there's some overheating that I think all contributed. Yeah, there were definitely like maybe reasons why I quit and think the lessons I learned from stopping like were valuable.

What I learned from like stopping was that that's not the result I wanted. Like that's not the that's not the feeling I wanted at the end. And and again, it's kind of funny because it's like, well, I don't usually get that like surge of like, you did it right, but just like, what kind of afterwards out of that, it was like it like cheapened my triumphant feeling that I had like two weeks before because I had said like, oh, like I never have been so ready, more ready to run 100 miles and then didn't run the other miles and was like, well, maybe.

Wasn't that like cheapens the experience after the fact? Yeah. And so I didn't want to experience that feeling again.

Guess like you're like, I'm cold, I'm wet, I'm miserable. And this feels bad, but I know something that feels worse.

Right? And so that's why it was like the moment you shared where I was in the car and yeah, like safe from the elements and warm again.

Yes, but even then there was no, like, desire to quit.

Just stall a bit, just, just wanted to wait until the morning, like, just let's just wait. And I'll walk it in tomorrow. There was like, there was no desire to like. And to quit that like the race entirely. But I do kind of feel like I would have lost kind of the spirit of it.

Yeah, yeah, it's.

Even harder to talk back when it, like, is logical and makes sense. And you know what I mean? Like, your brain's like, listen, what does it matter if you do it now or if you do it in four hours? In those moments, you're like, well, my brain's kind of right. Like, right. So then, like, sometimes it's hardest when your brain is like. Not lying.

You know what I mean?

That's true about the whole sport of ultramarathon thing in the first place. It's like you're just out there running in the middle of nowhere and no one cares anyway. So, like, the whole thing is pointless in, like, some aspects. Just like we're not doing this for, like, worldly fame or fortune or that's kind of like built into the equation at the beginning. And so it just has to be like, I care, I care, I care about my world. I care about my experiences. You're the only one that has to care.

Oh my gosh, David, this is so good. I like as you're saying that and you're like, listen, nobody cares but you when you're out there. I was listening to Tommy Reves a couple of years ago, and he used to, you know, a really fast marathoner. And then he he got lung cancer or lymphoma. He talked about how, like, even those things, like the big events, he's like, you're not going to get to the other side. And like, nobody's going to care how fast you can run a marathon. Nobody's going to care if you even ran one, right. But he was like, but it's like, what do I want to do while I'm here? Like, none of it's going to matter.

Not one thing. Nobody's walking around heaven. Like, hey, that guy's the 205 marathoner. Like nobody cares, right? Right. But I don't know. I just think it's beautiful what you said, like I care. I got to care. And if if I don't, nobody's going to that for me.

That experience of like at mile 94 where I was in such a low spot. Yeah. Jill kind of helped reset me and got me down like the path. No one would care. Even people that, like, care about me. Yes. My parents, they would not care like they they came and they helped support me on the event, right? Yes. They wouldn't care if I had slept in the car and walked it in the morning, like they would still have been ecstatic for me. And and to some degree, like I still would have been ecstatic of having finished it.

But it means more that I've thought through that low point and finished it like I care about that difference of 4 or 5 hours or, you know, whatever it is. And yeah, because, you knew what it cost you.


And like, it was like, you knows.

The price for it. Right.

And now it's this like sweet moment like that you guys shared.

That we share and. Yeah. And and then it's like in things that maybe like in life that matter more than, you know, a hobby. There's, there's this extra I guess now there's another layer of like we show up for each other. We, you know, we support each other in our low moments. And you do that consistently in running or outside of running. And that's how you build. Like you come to the end of your life, and it's sweet and fulfilling for you because you cared about, you know, whatever you chose to care about.

Oh my gosh, David, that's just gorgeous. It's so beautiful. And I love that thought that like being there. At those little moments, like build something sacred between you and you and Jill.

Yeah, it's like she can't do anything to help me other than just to, like, witness it, right? Like to be there. And it's super meaningful. I don't want to, like, put myself in Christ shoes or whatever, but it's like, yes, like the angel that visits Christ and gets just like, totally. They can't do anything to help Christ in that moment.

All I can do is watch.

They just witness it.

And and say, I think what's so powerful to say you can do it. And I can imagine that same moment happening then, right? Like, right. You can do this, right? Just like the gentle assurance that, like, I believe in you, I know you're hurting, but I know you can do this right.

There's a line in a book that I love. There's like a nurse who's kind of questioning the existence of a higher power of God. And basically she like, wonders, like, why does God allow infant mortality? And basically like, what's that purpose there? Like, why is that part of the, you know, and the priest that is like responding to her, his response is he just wants you to witness.

You don't have to fix it. You don't have to save the baby's life. You don't have to save the mother's life. He just wants you to bear witness. Like you just need to witness this moment and anyway, and just think about that a lot about in a gospel sense, I know we've left ultra running behind, but.

Just like.

Now, our job in some aspects, if you just boil it down, is just like, we just need to witness that. Like he authored the entire plan. He did everything for us to, you know.


To receive everything he's got to share with us. It's so beautiful. And like in my own experience with endurance events, like, I felt like I had a way better understanding of that than I ever had. Not that I can even, you know, glimpse that or really understand that kind of suffering, but it was like it made the scriptures come alive for me and so many in so many ways, so.

Well, let's all share this.

So, when I was in the car and I was like, yeah, safe and dry from the elements and just like not wanting to experience anymore, like just being like, don't want to feel, don't want to buy it like I don't I don't want it like, yeah, it's cold. Sometimes it's hot, sometimes it's sweaty. Like I don't want to feel the feelings. I don't want to feel the things.

Right. It's excruciating.

Down there. Don't want to do it. Yeah, yeah we're still feeling some things right. I was at that point feeling dry. I was feeling like. But it was like, oh, I get it now. Like I could see why feeling nothing might be better than feeling everything anyway.

Yeah, yeah.

That's good. So good. Love it. Okay, obviously most of my listeners are not training for 100 mile race. I'm not training for 100 mile race. But we all have things in our lives that we want to do that feel impossible. What is like 1 or 2 things that you would want them to know or do like?

So yeah, my thought on that is like like the first question you asked, like, why do you do hard things? Sometimes the way I think about it is like, everything is hard. Let's say what? Don't know what the opposite of ultrarunning is, but but in my mind, instead of spending six months training and then running an ultramarathon, the opposite would be, let's say, being bedridden for six months. Then think, what would I rather do? Like which? Which one is harder? And was like, oh, I would rather.

And that kind of goes back to the run grateful. Like, grateful that I've got a body that can do this. And so think for a long time I put off actually running the ultramarathons because I was like, okay, I'm going to finish marathoning first, like completely closed that, and then I'm going to do ultra marathoning like really different things. But that's how they were. But anyway, then I realized it's like I'm losing, like all this time trying to complete one chapter before pursuing another goal. And then just kind of, I don't know, time is going to pass anyway.

Yes, might as well pursue the experiences I want to pursue.

You know, if the time is going to pass anyway. And so, think starting and stopping training is also hard. It's just it's hard to start and stop. Start and stop, start and stop as it is to like just continue to be consistent, consistent, consistent. It's just as hard to like. So whatever it is in your life, not doing it or doing it or they're both 50/50. They're both going to have negative consequences. There's pain either way.

There's pain either way. So everything is hard. So pick the hard thing that you like to do. There's there's a I get all of my wisdom from comedians. And Jerry Seinfeld was recently on an interview with Howard Stern, and he was kind of like, so you're always trying to think of jokes, and Jerry's like, yeah, I'm always looking for material, always. And he's like, that sounds miserable. You sound tortured. And he's just like. Kind of. But like. The key to happiness is finding the torture you're comfortable with. Yeah. So it's like, whatever you pursue yeah, there's going to be times when you're training and you're like, yeah, I want to, I want to stop. But then you're also going to stopping also has negative consequences.

And I, I really like that because I think what's happening is our brain is always looking for what feels good and what feels easy. And if we could accept that there is no path of ease, right. There is no path of easing, then we could get better at choosing intentionally what we wanted rather than like what wasn't hard, right?

Right, so everything's going to be hard. If I hadn't have started the ultramarathon in me and I'm still I'm now ten years from when I read that book and thought, I want to do that.

It would still be out there would still be out there thinking like, yeah, I said I was going to do that someday, and I'm still here ten years later. Still wanting to do that thing.

Oh my gosh, you're just speaking right to me right now. This is exactly I feel that so deeply. Like I've had things that nudged me forever. And I just always keep thinking like, that's too hard, but love what you're saying. Like, it's hard to keep putting it off and it just keeps sitting there and time keeps passing. So yeah.

So had a buddy read the same book as me around the same time and we were talking about it and we're like, okay, we're going to do it. And we haven't seen In Touch. So I don't know how he really feels about it, but he hasn't run any of these ultramarathons he wanted, like he expressed at that time, that he wanted to run. Yeah. And and that's fine. Like I'm not saying like he should have done it. No. I just feel like I'm so glad that I've gotten to experience or the start of this process.

Right there are experiences you got to have that you wouldn't have and think, what's powerful about that is that, like, our brain is putting it off, thinking like somehow it's going to get easier and it just.

Right. It's always going to be hard.


That was another thing that like the reason I finally signed up for the first one that I did was turning 30 and just thinking like, oh, like. If I wait until I get into and complete the Boston Marathon to like, start to try and do ultra marathons, I'm going to be 45 before I ever get into Western states. And like, that's fine. There's lots of people that run western states at 45 and complete it. Yeah, but like I would like to.

Yeah, I would like to be able to do it before then. I would like to do it like. You know, guess while I'm young and healthy timeframe of like when you actually can't do ultramarathons anymore. And so it's just like, well, better sign up and start because like, who knows, how long is it going to take?

Yeah, I love. Both of those thoughts. It's always going to be hard and the time's going to pass either way. So, to start, just start.

And that was another question you had posed was how do you run 100 miles or how do you like. Yeah, like it goes back to like how does anyone do anything that's hard is they break it down into like manageable chunks. Like that's how you run 100 miles. You just like when you were training for your triathlon. Yeah. You're like, I can run three miles. Yes. So I will run three miles six times. Like. And that's the.

This is runner math. Well, I can run three miles, so I'll run three miles 30 times and then get just like.

And that's how, like, that's how you do it. You just like, okay. Like a lot of runners will do it. Like ultra runners will do it from aid station ASAP. About every 4 to 5 miles. Like, okay, I can make it to the next aid station. I can make it to the next aid station and just keep doing that, and then you're done. And it's just like, how do you write a novel? How do you how do you build the pyramids? How do you like you do it?

Yeah. You just break it down.

Yeah, I just heard that guy. I forgot his name. Poor guy. He's not going to get credit, but he just ran across America and Rachel interviewed him, and he was just like, listen, there's hardly ever a time in your life where you can't take one more step. Like, I haven't found it yet where I can't take one more step. Like the the guy who won Big's backyard. I don't know if you heard of this event.

Oh my gosh. Yes, yes.

Just run.

The 4.24 mile. It's a four mile loop. Yeah, a little bit more than.

And it's just like there's no end to it. You just go as long as you can go of just like four miles every hour. Every hour until somebody until the last man standing right. And he ran 450 miles.

How did he do it?

Like I can go the next step, I can go the next, you know, like you just break it down into like, a chunk you can do.

Yeah. It's remarkable what you can do. Step at a time. Well, I just want to thank you so much for being here. You're my youngest brother, but I look up to you so much, and I admire you so much. And, like, I'm just always amazed at your pain tolerance. And you talk about it like it's easy, and I know that it isn't. So I really just want you to know that I love you and admire you. And I'm so glad that you were here on the podcast.

Okay. Isn't he so awesome? I told you, I told you like there are so many powerful gems in this. I don't know how I got put in a family with all these people that do hard things, but I feel really blessed to have David be a part of my life and to be able to learn from his example. I just want to remind you that it's all hard. So do the things that you want to do because the time is going anyway. And that, my friends, is 100% awesome. I love you for listening and I'll see you next week.

Thanks so much for joining me on the podcast today. If you're serious about changing your life, you first have to change your mind. And the best way to do that is through coaching. I work with my clients one on one to help them change their thoughts and their feelings about themselves, their lives, and their challenges so that they can live a life they love. If you'd like to work with me one on one, you can learn more and schedule a free call to try coaching for yourself at


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